Curse

superraptors · Jul 23, 2011, 02:35 AM // 02:35

sure you want to have fun with your melee builds but it is a competitive arena after all, everyone would like the best advantage as possible to win, using bflash and bsurge is being smart, but using sight beyond sight is even smarter.

DiogoSilva · Jul 23, 2011, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

but however it's hard to deal with those 123 earth eles....

I'm an ele myself, and I loathe those. Probably the most one-dimensional and boring build I've played with in GW. When I think of earth, I think of terrain/ mobility-based protection, KDs or damage. Spamming KDs on Weakened targets over and over, and that being either too strong or too weak (against players who can cure conditions or avoid projectiles) without having any skillful way to turn around it, is so laughably bad.

Reverend Dr · Jul 23, 2011, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

but however it's hard to deal with those 123 earth eles....

*click* *click* dodge ebon hawk *click* *click* dodge stoning

I just countered them with one hand

Xenomortis · Jul 23, 2011, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Harder to do at close range when crippled though.
Still, rest assured that whilst they're messing about trying to KD you they're achieving nothing else to the other 3 people on your team.

makosi · Jul 23, 2011, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

*click* *click* dodge ebon hawk *click* *click* dodge stoning

I just countered them with one hand

But as soon as your start doing something, other than dancing around, you can't dodge the homing missiles. No casting, no attacking, just dancing.

DiogoSilva · Jul 23, 2011, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

But as soon as your start doing something, other than dancing around, you can't dodge the homing missiles. No casting, no attacking, just dancing.

With a little training, you can spend half the time doing stuff and the other half dancing, which is usually enough to render one entire opponent useless. That being said, I don't think it's a easy as people are saying. At least, I still dont know how to avoid projectiles properly (especially when I'm near them).

Dirame · Jul 23, 2011, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

sure you want to have fun with your melee builds but it is a competitive arena after all, everyone would like the best advantage as possible to win, using bflash and bsurge is being smart, but using sight beyond sight is even smarter.

Let me tell you the difference between an ele who uses steam to blind and an ele who uses b.flash and bsurge; brains. One has to work for it and gets the extra pay-off by doing a bit of degen and the other just keeps whacking that thing on recharge even if he or she isn't doing much damage.

The Eles that use B.flash/bsurge could actually just add glyph of immolation to their bar and do degen and I'd actually think "yes that person is actually good, they are degening while delivering the blindness" but they don't! They actually just keep spamming blind and do not care if they are doing damage as long as you don't kill them. Its almost pathetic.

On the other hand I have no reason to hate on Earth eles who do the one two three thing. They have to work for that knockdown and there is a small threshhold in which I can remove the weakness condition while Bsurge Eles can toss out two blinds back to back. Also I personally think that Ele projectiles should susceptible to blocking but hey... that's just me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

*click* *click* dodge ebon hawk *click* *click* dodge stoning

I just countered them with one hand

I've tried that several times, I've only been able to do it twice if I remember correctly.

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

sure you want to have fun with your melee builds but it is a competitive arena after all, everyone would like the best advantage as possible to win, using bflash and bsurge is being smart, but using sight beyond sight is even smarter.

The problem with sight beyond sight for me is it doesn't remove all the other things that could be detrimental to me. Other people may think that its not essential to remove things like weakness and deep wound but I think it is and thats why I always bring something that can remove conditions.

Even with all this blinding there are some people who say I'm a noob for bringing antidote signet. Makes me scratch my head every time.

Missing HB · Jul 23, 2011, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Trying to dodge something that can be spammed permanently is just plain silly... Either you got a monk in your team and then it might be worthy doing it( but then it will rely on monk dodging it ....), either the guy will wait for you to melee to spam those...

If you have no monk, you're basically useless whilst the ele can switch target in half a sec...

Dodging , rupting key skill , removing enchants are surely good , but that's suggestions that fit for TA, not for a random format where you don't know what you will get....

Xenomortis · Jul 23, 2011, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirame

I've tried that several times, I've only been able to do it twice if I remember correctly.

Dodging projectiles reliably is fairly easy with a little practice and is a very useful and basic skill.
Either enter a scrimmage match with a friend and practice dodging the shots from enemy archers or head to the Isle of the Nameless and dodge the spells from the Master of Lightning (both his attack spells are projectiles).
Also try to use your mouse to move, not the keyboard.

Halestorm · Jul 23, 2011, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Me/A (or A/Me for the additional armor)
Echo, Blackout, Diversion, Death's Charge, (optional), (optional), (optional), rez sig.

Optionals: Wastrel's Demise, Empathy, anything useful...

Use: Troll everything in the arena spamming Blackout. When Echo recharging, use your other skills.

This build was made for fun because everyone is currently "HURR BUILD NOT META OFF PvX /RESIGN... HURR NOOOOOB DURR UNINSTALL."

Dirame · Jul 23, 2011, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halestorm

Me/A (or A/Me for the additional armor)
Echo, Blackout, Diversion, Death's Charge, (optional), (optional), (optional), rez sig.

Optionals: Wastrel's Demise, Empathy, anything useful...

Use: Troll everything in the arena spamming Blackout. When Echo recharging, use your other skills.

This build was made for fun because everyone is currently "HURR BUILD NOT META OFF PvX /RESIGN... HURR NOOOOOB DURR UNINSTALL."

I believe someone like you just knocked out my res sig twice today.

Amazing Stroopwafel · Aug 01, 2011, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Okay so I've restarted playing some PvP (just noticed TA is gone) and in particular I've been playing as Ranger.

Now I noticed that on the standard BA/magebane/cripshot bar there is generally an optional slot typically filled by point blank/savage shot. Lately however I've tried to fill it with barbed trap, and with great success I might say. Traps are so uncommon people don't look for them, melee chars always run in them, monks/casters don't even run when you place a trap next to them or forget about them and run into it later.
The trap is cheap and laid down in 2 secs so it hardly disturbs the standard R/Mo pressure play.

I think traps have great synergy with the standard R/Mo build. With points in wilderness already Barbed trap adds bleeding, cripple and a little bit of damage to your poison pressure , All that with only one skill. I've even tried to swap out the elite of the R/Mo for smoke trap to get the condition stack real high, besides sceptical team mates hating you it actually works surprisingly well.

Am I crazy or do you guys also think barbed trap (and maybe smoke trap) are good optionals for the standard R/Mo build?

superraptors · Aug 01, 2011, 03:00 AM // 03:00

bflash needs a nerf back to 15 energy

Tryndamere · Aug 01, 2011, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazing Stroopwafel

Okay so I've restarted playing some PvP (just noticed TA is gone) and in particular I've been playing as Ranger.

Now I noticed that on the standard BA/magebane/cripshot bar there is generally an optional slot typically filled by point blank/savage shot. Lately however I've tried to fill it with barbed trap, and with great success I might say. Traps are so uncommon people don't look for them, melee chars always run in them, monks/casters don't even run when you place a trap next to them or forget about them and run into it later.
The trap is cheap and laid down in 2 secs so it hardly disturbs the standard R/Mo pressure play.

I think traps have great synergy with the standard R/Mo build. With points in wilderness already Barbed trap adds bleeding, cripple and a little bit of damage to your poison pressure , All that with only one skill. I've even tried to swap out the elite of the R/Mo for smoke trap to get the condition stack real high, besides sceptical team mates hating you it actually works surprisingly well.

Am I crazy or do you guys also think barbed trap (and maybe smoke trap) are good optionals for the standard R/Mo build?

The only major downside I see with that is the lack of blockage. Smoke Trap has a 20 second recharge, but most of the ranger's block stances have too high a recharge to be able to cover your casts every single time. The only exception would be Escape, but then this means you cannot use Smoke or Spike Trap because you cannot have two elites. The only stance close enough to Escape is Natural Stride, but then NS also has some major downsides in that if you get hexed or enchanted by anyone, your trap-casts become exposed. The only way you can bypass this problem would be to have a monk that carries Guardian, but even then 50% can only go so far for you.

I'd say that your best bet would be to either use Escape [elite block stance] and non-elite traps, or simply take Lightning Reflexes and Whirling Defenses along with your preferred elite trap to aid in preventing auto-attacked interruptions [aka: spear chucks and getting wanded]. You could also take Trapper's Focus, but then you cannot take Apply Poison [which is a very bad thing].

Sankt Hallvard · Aug 01, 2011, 01:12 PM // 13:12

I'll grant the stroopwafel that bringing a trap to ra is probably a good thing as it will catch most people off guard, but bringing one trap is enough. The advice tryndamere is giving sounds more like you're going to play sway in ha. You simply don't take a bunch of block stances just to get that one trap up. Who's going to be autoattacking a ranger a whole match anyway? And if they do, their play will suffer in other respects so you win already without having to even use the trap.

If you can use that trap intelligently, that is not using it randomly on recharge without checking if someone is wanding you etc, I'd say you can probably get a lot out of it. But you can bet your team will rage at you a lot. First because most players(or I should say ALL) overestimate their own skill and will waste no time trying to find a teammate on whom to blame their own shortcomings. Second because people think ra=ta and that all that matters is w, r, n, mo or gtfo.

And btw, savage shot is not an optional skill on that bar but point blank is.

Tryndamere · Aug 02, 2011, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

I'll grant the stroopwafel that bringing a trap to ra is probably a good thing as it will catch most people off guard, but bringing one trap is enough. The advice tryndamere is giving sounds more like you're going to play sway in ha. You simply don't take a bunch of block stances just to get that one trap up. Who's going to be autoattacking a ranger a whole match anyway? And if they do, their play will suffer in other respects so you win already without having to even use the trap.

If you can use that trap intelligently, that is not using it randomly on recharge without checking if someone is wanding you etc, I'd say you can probably get a lot out of it. But you can bet your team will rage at you a lot. First because most players(or I should say ALL) overestimate their own skill and will waste no time trying to find a teammate on whom to blame their own shortcomings. Second because people think ra=ta and that all that matters is w, r, n, mo or gtfo.

And btw, savage shot is not an optional skill on that bar but point blank is.

Bringing traps without a way to increase the security of casting is just begging for defeat. You simply cannot have a trapper without some way to almost guarantee successful casting. This is why I argue that stances are in fact needed. Most of these traps have 20 or 30 second cool downs, and in order to make trapping prime, you should be able to cast traps upon recharge. Otherwise, it's just not worth considering traps as a viable offensive tactic.

Traps need skills that will facilitate their success. Otherwise, traps just aren't worth bringing to the table in RA.

MetalMan · Aug 03, 2011, 09:50 AM // 09:50

I thought I'd just take out the important parts of the above post and discuss them but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tryndamere

traps just aren't worth bringing to the table in RA.

this just about summed it up. A static, low damage skill with long cast, long recharge AND easily interruptable?

To be a successful trapper, you need a full bar of skills which will enhance the trapping idea. They can't be an afterthought. A trap on a bar not geared towards them is a wasted skill slot.

Also, players with more than one braincell will just realise you're putting up traps and either A) they have self heal, in which case they'll trigger your traps and then heal; or B) they'll avoid walking near your traps completely. Sure, you will get people being caught by your traps. But, last I checked, barbed trap wasn't going to cause party wipes any time soon.

Amazing Stroopwafel · Aug 03, 2011, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Well good thing you took a look at the standard turret ranger build and noticed natural stride on that bar then. Rangers are a low priority target in RA anyway, it's not hard to lay down a trap.

Obviously Barbed trap is not for the damage but applies long lasting bleeding an cripple, it can be a good way to protect your casters from melee pressure (it's hard to walk around traps when your target goes through them). Funny thing is that at the same time you run, lets say, a BA build where poison can perfectly cover the trap conditions. Not many skills remove 3-4 conditions at once anyway and none of those are used in RA. I mention Barbed trap because I think it has a nice synergy with the other skills and condition pressure purpose on a turret ranger but the trap will NOT be the prime purpose of the build, just an extra on the bar.

Yet I can see your points but a more important reason for me not to take barbed trap is that pin down will probably do the job better on a turret build and cripshots don't need a double cripple skill at all.

deluxe · Aug 03, 2011, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Apply Poison, Blackout, Escape, Barbed trap, Pin down, Dshot, Savage shot, Res.

That's what I run in GvG, should work fine in RA too.
But it's most fun when you trap before the flagstand in GvG

Llint · Aug 04, 2011, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Traps are decent-good in organized PvP because they deal pretty good condition pressure and are good both offensively and defensively.

The problem in RA is, your team probably isn't going to be smart enough to realize you're a trapper and 90% of them won't use your traps to their benefit. And any monk/necro worth their salt will have draw conditions/foul feast, and if the opposing team has either you basically lose all defensive aspects (blind, cripple) and it cripples you offense wise.

The biggest problem in RA I find is damage. Bring a class that does damage and you're guaranteed to win a few matches, more if you get a half way decent monk. Roll a shock axe, roll a dev hammer, roll a balth dervish, any of them deal good damage and pick a target that is one of their main damage dealers and lineback them. If they kite, good you effectively shut them down, if they don't then the monk won't be able to keep up with the pressure. Picking monks usually isn't a good choice because they usually have good defensive skills and can kite really effectively since a patient spirit is a 1/4 cast.

As a monk there is nothing more that I want than 2 or 3 melee classes, with maybe a support class (necro with foul feast is good because they can help keep the frontline clean). I cannot stress enough how important draw conditions and foul feast are, if you have room for either I recommend bringing it. RA WoH can't really heal a lot, two frontline should easily be able to wreck a single monk team as long as they are kept clean.

At least that is what I think. Trappers aren't necessarily bad, but it's RA so I wouldn't be surprised if you could run one with large success but at the same time they don't really deal much damage and I cannot really count how many times I have monked for teams that took 2 minutes to kill a non-monk team. If you just want to have fun playing ranger I would stick to the tried and true burning arrow, poison arrow, etc etc.